Life Here and Hereafter

[Geoff]

This is a continuation of "Spirit World and Spirit Life" by Charlotte Elizabeth Dresser, also a fabulous book. Actually however, it is a very different book, and is only partly her work.

The pdf is available here Pdf Copy

Sadly the creator of that pdf has seen fit to prevent it being printed, or even copied as in "Select All" and paste into a word doc so you can quote it, or print it.

For me this book was really a missing link. The missing link between "30 Years among the dead" and the various Padgett related messages on life after death. It is a large number of case studies of a human working with a celestial support group tasked with awakening these recently departed folks.

Finally I have a very clear idea of how the majority of us typically awaken in the next realm. And it's a sad scene. Apparently 75% of us mortals awake into darkness and confusion, with minds in a dream state, unable to see anything or hear anything. Some are relatively quickly taught how to awaken their spiritual sight, and hearing, and then progress as expected. Some are so caught up in their original earth beliefs, that they take a lot of work to awaken, insisting that they are not dead, because they are "alive" etc. Others (relatively few) may apparently take centuries to come out of this zombie like state. These are not folks that are bad either, just folks who never gave a thought to life after death. One can see how "earth bounds" occur, and one case of obsession is handled as well, although very interestingly this is a case of two ex-mortals being attached to another ex-mortal. I did not imagine obsession of one spirit by another could occur.

I would really recommend this book, and plan to add it to my favourites.

love,
Geoff.

[Chris1111]

Jeff,

I read "Life Here and Hereafter" and found it vary interesting. I am somewhat confused about what the Urantia papers say concerning survival when compared to the accounts in the book LHH with "undeveloped spirits." I thought consciousness was only possible after emerging from the resurrection halls on Mansoinia #1. Is there some exception to this for those that are "prepared" vs. those that are not? Also, Mary and her circle seemed to have little knowledge about higher spheres or universe government--did you pick-up on that? Is it possible that we here on earth have access to greater knowledge than those on Mansonia 1? It seems that LHH violates much of what the U-book says concerning the "policy" of non-communication. LHH does however make some sence out of what happens to these unprepared individuals and how we make our own hell.

Paper 112 states:

Upon death the Thought Adjuster temporarily loses personality, but not identity; the human subject temporarily loses identity, but not personality; on the mansion worlds both reunite in eternal manifestation. Never does a departed Thought Adjuster return to earth as the being of former indwelling; never is personality manifested without the human will; and never does a dis-Adjustered human being after death manifest active identity or in any manner establish communication with the living beings of earth. Such dis-Adjustered souls are wholly and absolutely unconscious during the long or short sleep of death. There can be no exhibition of any sort of personality or ability to engage in communications with other personalities until after completion of survival. Those who go to the mansion worlds are not permitted to send messages back to their loved ones. It is the policy throughout the universes to forbid such communication during the period of a current dispensation.


What are your thoughts on this? I'm trying to put together a more clear picture of the crossover process.

[Geoff]

Dear Chris,

Well I have had to give up on what the Ubook says in that regard, as its just not possible in my view to reconcile it. Maybe there is some whay to reconcile them, but I have now completely given up. This book was the last straw.

There are dozens of books like this one, and they all tell a similar story, and these stories are actual stories of ex-mortals. Even the issue of it taking 3 days does not seem to be the case, these guys are simply dead in the same place where their bodies are, at the same time. Just like an OBE.

George has had some attempt to assist with this, and without wishing to put words in his mouth, I have understood his view to be that these are not really "full people" but more like packets of energy left over. But that does not figure either IMHO, if you actually read these sort of books. In that view there would have to be two instances of the same person, yet these folks arrive, and evolve, and are still one person. These "instances" are very real, and have a continued existence and they also progress.

Also, Mary and her circle seemed to have little knowledge about higher spheres or universe government--did you pick-up on that?

That is true of the earlier book as well, and in my experience very typical of folks in the first or even second sphere. They just don't have a top down view at that stage. But you can find a great many spirits in the sixth who deny the existence of a seventh, so that view can persist. What is even stranger in my view, is that I have never read any of these ex-mortals to mention any sort of celestial intelligence other than ex-mortals. I find that stranger still.

If you read "30 years among the dead", you find a very similar tale, except these guys are "attached" to a living human.

Those who go to the mansion worlds are not permitted to send messages back to their loved ones. It is the policy throughout the universes to forbid such communication during the period of a current dispensation.

Well that is very clearly a false statement as regards Urantia. I can't say if it is complete nonsense, or just true everywhere except here. I have talked to my mother and it certainly was my mother. George has had similar experiences.

love,
Geoff.

[peacockplume]

Hi Geoff,
Well for me, although I always want to 'know' just about everything, I also realize 'I won't get to',,,,the search is the journey....and if there was an 'end' I for one would be greatly disappointed.

I do get doubts though, as I'm sure alot do, about the 'spirits' that visit us, and there must be as many explanations, about who what where and why....and when one has had an 'experience', well, I'm sorry, if the UB says it can't happen.....that's almost like taking the Bible verbatim....
and alot of that was 'channelled',,,,,or remembered....

the first time one visits a medium, and experiences their departed ones 'talking' to them, usually makes them a believer....

I just downloaded the 30 yrs among the dead, and got a charge out of...

Dr. Samuel Johnson said: “I do not
believe in spirits - I have seen too many of them

my limited knowledge on the subject is slowly expanding (it has to be slow or I'd say, this is nuts),

and I am beginning to realize there must be many 'levels',,,,,

if what I am being told about our lower 4th plane of the 4th dimension, holds any water, that is where the 'disturbed spirit/ghosts' reside,,,,it's supposed to be the negative dumping ground of peoples emotions,,,,so it's no small wonder who comes through things like ouiji boards etc.

it is a bit disconcerting though, to think that perhaps your parents (deceased), if they keep coming through to you,,,,,,are they stuck there???

so it's kind of a catch 22, on one hand, people want to be in touch with their dearly departed,,,,,,,,,,the UB says, not possible, because they would have moved on to higher realms and re-connection is not possible.

so what's the bigger comfort???? knowing they've moved on???? or them being stuck in a dimension, but able to contact you????

it seems to me,,,,,(only personal opinion mind you), but if all the mediums who channel dear ole mom or dad,,,,,,had some perspective,,, that there should be some counselling to the living, that dear ole mom and dad should be helped to move on........

well obviously, I'm not a medium, and don't wish for the job, but if I did, I think that's what I'd ask to be able to do.....to help the spirit move to the light.......

on the lighter side, I guess that would cancel repeat business.....

we keep getting told that the 'veil' is thinning, yet I'm sure that we won't be able to see more than our own spiritual progression allows. and perhaps that is where:

spirits in the sixth who deny the existence of a seventh

comes in.....if they don't have the awareness of anything beyond, they wouldn't believe in the seventh.....
like some people today, saying, no there's nothing beyond life, because they have no knowledge of it....

just thinking
pp

[Geoff]

Dear pp,

so it's kind of a catch 22, on one hand, people want to be in touch with their dearly departed,,,,,,,,,,the UB says, not possible, because they would have moved on to higher realms and re-connection is not possible.

Well when my mother came to talk to me, the celestial who is my friends guide said "It will take a bit of time, she is a long way away, and I will have to fetch her"

So I am afraid I can't find any truth in the Urantia Book saying they can't talk to us, and I am also sure that it makes no difference how evolved they are, they can still talk to us. I would certainly not assume that because they talk to you, they must have not evolved much.

comes in.....if they don't have the awareness of anything beyond, they wouldn't believe in the seventh.....
like some people today, saying, no there's nothing beyond life, because they have no knowledge of it....

It is possible to be taken by a more evolved entity a small way into higher spheres, but of your own, you cannot go any further than your soul development provides, and also you can't even discern these higher places. They are just hidden. But, in one book I read, a sixth sphere entity managed a peek into the seventh, and found it far too loving for their comfort, so they then decided they would not like to go there. So you see there are many things at work.

love,
Geoff

[peacockplume]

Dear Geoff,
Thank you so much, your words were a soothing upon my heart...

It will take a bit of time, she is a long way away, and I will have to fetch her"

I don't know why, but that makes sense to me... and

it makes no difference how evolved they are, they can still talk to us

I have a friend who's gramma, is with her, almost all the time, and she sometimes panics, when she is told she must let her go by mediums...
we of course don't agree with this, and her gramma told her, don't worry, I'll be with you until you pass over.....
so I guess my question there is, in a case like her gramma, could she be a sort of guardian???

a sixth sphere entity managed a peek into the seventh, and found it far too loving for their comfort, so they then decided they would not like to go there.

yes that does bring up alot of questions doesn't it. I couldn't imagine finding a loving atmosphere and not wanting to be there, I would almost think the opposite, that you wouldn't want to finish your progress where you were, and want to be there instead....but we all have our own choices I guess....

thank you for your insight Geoff,
hugs
pp

[Geoff]

Dear pp,

I have a friend who's gramma, is with her, almost all the time, and she sometimes panics, when she is told she must let her go by mediums...
we of course don't agree with this, and her gramma told her, don't worry, I'll be with you until you pass over.....
so I guess my question there is, in a case like her gramma, could she be a sort of guardian???

Absolutely. Some grandmas have really evolved, and are WAY OUT THERE. My own mother is now a Christ Spirit. How cool is that.

love,
Geoff.

[peacockplume]

Pretty cool there Geoff...

I talked to my friend and let her know what you said, and she felt great about it...

thanks alot

pp

[Chris1111]

Jeff,

You and I were talking earlier about the differences between the U-Book and the statements in the LHH concerning communications and time lines. I found something in the Rayson transcripts that perhaps reveals another possibility, but he was forbidden to speak on the subject. The lesson was on personality and death. Rayson speaks about a "borderland period" after the adjuster leaves for Divinington and before the repersonalization on the mansion worlds.

Rayson:

Third is physical death, which you are familiar with, where mind-body dies, generally defined as no
brain-pattern activity. After death, physical death, it is decided whether the human will sleep until the
end of a dispensation and be repersonalized with a group from their planet, or whether they will -
because of a superior spiritual life and understanding of the true goal of existence - be repersonalized
after the third period on Mansonia.

There is a borderland period between physical death and repersonalization where the Adjuster is on
Divinington, but we are not allowed to describe this to you in detail. Suffice it to say that many
interesting phenomena occur during this period, phenomena which you humans are partially able to
participate in and observe.
(Long pause) A moment. (Longer pause) Please excuse the interruption. I have asked if I could explain
more about the borderland, but have not been given permission to. Let us discuss some myths, now.

There are no communications from - directly from - the mansion world personalities to this planet
directly. Because of our teaching force, some messages may be carried back and forth with special
permission from Prince MELCHIZEDEK and MICHAEL of Nebadon.
No adjuster is ever returned to Urantia in the same personality as one who has died. No reincarnation on
this planet. False concept. There are questions about ghosts, apparitions, etcetera. Most of this folklore
is based on the rebellious Midwayers, which no longer exist, and human foibles. Energy patterns, which
are picked up on Midwayer patterns, some humans can glimpse Secondary Midwayers and misinterpret,
but I go off the track.

Perhaps there is truth in both accounts and we are unable to understand the metaphysics. I would certainly like to know the forbidden information wouldn't you?

[peacockplume]

I was wondering why, some of this sounded so "old school" and went and looked at the UB copywrite date which is only 1955..... so that whole thing was published only back in 1955, how many years it took in receiving the channellings for it, I didn't find.....but it was penned by the human hand and through the human thinking of at least some 52 yrs ago.

nope, can't discuss that,,,,,this doesn't exist, but no reason why,,,,
very restricted thinking....

and where are we now in 2007, heading for 2012, and people are still going to keep a 'closed mind' to what's going on???? I don't think so....

Suffice it to say that many interesting phenomena occur during this period, phenomena which you humans are partially able to
participate in and observe.

well, if we can partially participate and observe, we are certainly going to want to talk about it....

After death, physical death, it is decided whether the human will sleep until the end of a dispensation and be repersonalized with a group from their planet,

now to me,,,,,,being repersonalized with a group from their planet, is a type of reincarnation,,,,,,,bringing back to life, (whether here or there), unless they're left to 'sleep' ????

No adjuster is ever returned to Urantia in the same personality as one who has died.

well, yeah, really, it would hardly be possible would it, but here he is only speaking of the adjuster, our part of God consciousness, that is carried in each separate human being, who carry each a different personality....."otherwise, we would.....remember"

so other than, with us now learning more of 'timeline's/dimensions, can we understand how we could imagine we had lived another life, if in our dimensional travelling we experience other timelines....I could see the misconception of re-incarnation.....

I think alot of "forbidden knowledge" is only forbidden, because we as a collective group of consciousness, had not developed at the time to be able to properly assimilate the knowledge.....

well, alot has happened since 1955,,,,,,and especially in view of what's being brought forward now with the advent of 2012, the awareness is opening up.....

so I for one am definitely not satisfied with just reading:

There are questions about ghosts, apparitions, etcetera. Most of this folklore is based on the rebellious Midwayers, which no longer exist, and human foibles.

then turns right around in the next sentance with:

Energy patterns, which are picked up on Midwayer patterns, some humans can glimpse Secondary Midwayers and misinterpret,

but the ghost thing is something else......so, we die,,,,our energy, goes....somewhere (if not to sleep), and if you ask any of today's 'mediums", who have the ability to 'see', when they do a reading, sometimes they can describe the departed without any previous knowledge of them...

that's pretty good for 'misinterpreting'.

I guess it all comes down to - not being able to take the written word, for absolute truth - because somehow, in the interpreting,,,,a personal view is projected....


Chris, you said:

I would certainly like to know the forbidden information wouldn't you?

I'd like a penny for everytime I've been told.......Go within and ask.....

that's where the answers are, if we will listen.....


(geez, don't know what got me off on this tangent???)

sorry, for interrupting in your conversation.
pp

[Geoff]

Dear Chris,

Perhaps there is truth in both accounts and we are unable to understand the metaphysics. I would certainly like to know the forbidden information wouldn't you?

You are not wrong there. Well if there is an explanation, and they won't tell us, and I get it wrong, I know who to blame, and blame I will.

love,
Geoff.

[peacockplume]

Hear, Hear,,,

pp

love that logic....