Hi again Friends,
Thanks for everyone's input on these questions so far, and thanks in advance for bearing with this long post -- asking about such things here is rather new for me -- during the time I've been on these boards (just over a year now), I've kept my conversations here mostly upbeat and positive (as well as mostly staying away from potentially controversial or negative topics), which is the primary outlook and focus I've been working on for many years. During some periods of time, I've managed to stay focused primarily on the positive for long stretches (although this orientation is something I've had to gradually acquire through lots of study and practice over the years, since it didn't come naturally to me after growing up as the scapegoat in a dysfunctional family and being made to attend fundamentalist bible school in the summers as a kid
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
), and I've transformed my life and progressed greatly over the years as a result. This positively-focused self is the me I've tried to keep in the forefront in my life as often as possible, and to share most frequently on these boards. But it seems that human growth and healing processes are so organic, progressing non-linearly and unpredictably, sometimes in fits and starts, sometimes in layers, sometimes cycling around again in certain areas and temporarily regressing in a "two steps forward, one step back" type of pattern. And there currently seems to be a general movement on these boards towards greater honesty and authenticity (as well as some processing of the remaining baggage we've been carrying), as we've all continued to build trust within this supportive 11:11 community (some prime examples can be found on the Secret thread and Gypsie Deb's Mothers thread in the Miscellaneous forum) -- and the bravery of some of our dear pioneers in this regard has inspired me to do a bit of the same. Hence the sharing of some of my deeper doubts and what may sound like negative, self-limiting thinking, stuff I would have at one time kept hidden, but I hope I'm not inadvertently coming across as less positive overall than I really usually am -- I'm just hoping to simply come across as a "real person," who, just like everyone else, can sometimes contain a paradoxical mix of the positive and the negative simultaneously.
Thank you,
George, for the information on Athena, and for the link where I can read all the transmissions from her. I haven't yet read any of the Urantia Book, nor more than a tiny percent of all the transmits available on this site from all the different Midwayers and Celestials, so I still have much to learn about the Midwayers and other Celestials in general, and about each of them as individuals, their specific personalities, and so on. The quote you cited from Machiventa in 2000 indeed sounds like the one I read somewhere that got me wondering about this in the first place. And I'm guessing, from the question mark you added to your post, that you are not wanting to claim to know for sure exactly what Machiventa meant, but are just trying to offer your best guess. In the case of Athena per se, at least, it sounds like, since she has outright stated, "Do call on me at any time...", I can feel at ease about doing so.
Seamus,
Michelle,
Joshua and
Austin Ruth, thanks so much for all your upbeat, positive, encouraging comments, all beautifully stated. In a general sense, I very much agree with what all of you have said -- this type of positive orientation is exactly the kind I am always aspiring towards. Thank you, also,
Michelle, for your bravery in mentioning this regarding
George's post on the Machiventa quote:
...I guess from a literal standpoint I can see how one might come to that conclusion but I guess from my viewpoint that would say to me that their help for us comes with conditions. And if it comes with conditions then that means they are not working in a state of unconditional love. Now maybe they are judgmental but if they are then that would say to me that they are not really all that advanced themselves because from my understanding of it for a soul, spirit or entity to be advanced one would perceive that they have grown past judgment..."
I mean no disrespect or anything negative towards any of the Midwayers or any other Celestials in saying this, and it's quite possible, probably likely, that this has been a misunderstanding on my part, but I think this is the very point I haven't quite been able to put my finger on until
Michelle just articulated it so well, that has given me an unconscious (until recently) feeling of dissonance -- and I think I've been wondering how to reconcile even the possibility that the Machiventa quote might have meant something like this with all the other highly positive, unconditional-love-type teachings, such as you all have mentioned, that I've been working to absorb.
George, as I finally refreshed my screen in the middle of my writing this, I now see that you've posted the entire 2000 session from Machiventa (assuming this was the same one you referred to above). Reading this in context now, it sounds completely different to me, in fact. Machiventa sounds quite compassionate and loving here, and in the end, where he says, "They could do no more than you do for them, my friend," it sounds to me like he's simply expressing his great appreciation that you've done so very much to help them that there's no way they could possibly do any more for you than you've been doing for them (it may indeed still speak of "Universe credits," but your case, it sounds like Machiventa is saying you've already earned a surplus of them
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
). This is a good reminder for me to try and view the larger context in which a comment occurs before making any assumptions, consciously or unconsciously (if it's possible to consciously hold off on making an unconscious assumption, that is
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
).
I'll bet the best approach would be for me to just go to the AC and/or do stillness meditation more often, leaving behind the worry (after all, that's why we take a shower in the meditation before we go into the AC, no?), and thereby just make myself available for contact, simply see who shows up, and just listen and learn, trusting my own intuition even if I'm not sure of it at the time (since it actually often seems to be validated after the fact anyway
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
) and in that way, just form my own direct relationships with them and develop my understanding from my own direct experiences over time. Sometimes in the AC, without my asking for anything in particular, various Celestials have just had me sit down as soon as I arrived, and started working on removing tension from my body, giving me medicines to drink for some discomfort I've been having, and so on, so they've in fact been helping me already when they perceive that I need it without my even asking. And other times, they have automatically brought me "patients" to work on without my having to ask or decide anything first. So perhaps I just need to relax, trust the process a little more, and just see where it goes.
Sorry to be writing such a gigantic post, but I do have one more question (well, maybe a small list of questions, more like!
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
). From reading Doreen Virtue and other sources, it sounds like the angels (with only a couple of exceptions) are beings who've never left the heavenly realms to incarnate as mortals, so their vibrational energies are very high and pure, higher than that of beings who are, or have ever been, incarnated, and that they have the capability to be in more than one place at once.
George, it's been my impression from reading your first book (I've got your second one now but haven't started reading it yet), and some of the other information on this site, that the Midwayers are at least somewhat more like us, in that they seem to experience a range of different emotions, including negative ones at times, is that right? And it sounds too like they cannot necessarily be in more than one place at once? This might also account for any difference in what an angel and a Midwayer might expect from us, or in what way it would be most appropriate to relate to each of them.
While I'm still not completely sure of the full answer yet, I do feel much better about it than I did before, and this discussion has really had me pondering the question and synthesizing a lot of information, which is resulting in a lot of growth for me. Thanks again to all of you for your input!
Austin Ruth, thanks also for those quotes on creativity from the Urantia Book. How cool that it's paper 111!
![colors :colors:](./images/smilies/icon_colors.gif)
I'll put that on my list, along with papers 77 and 114 that
George recommended to me earlier, to start off with, when I finally do begin reading the UB!
One more little note: just today I read yesterday's transmit from Samuel of Panoptia on journaling, which I've done prolificly almost daily for over 30 years. Hence, it feels to me like further validation for yet another of the activities that I'm most naturally inclined to do -- hurray!
Love and Hugs to you all
![Its love LUV2](./images/smilies/icon_wub.gif)
,
Aqua Deb